August 22 - 31 2010 mailing list messages

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From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: Phalaenopsis lowii (3)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 09:40

Hi David
I don't know why that might be so though I have had it happen a few times with othere species and I find it very disappointiing. That's a very fine flower though and as soon as I can I will be having a go with it. Nice photo too. Do you have a side view?
Andy

From: N & T Burgess
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: BOGA Dinton Exhi.LIST 2010[1]
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:10

Just incase anyone was thinking of going to Dinton Pastures next weekend here is a list of attendees too help you make up your mind.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing: 013, Phalaenopsis lowii (2)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:45

Hello Andy,
This is the only photo that gives a side view.These photo's were taken in October 2008, the last time I flowered it well. It's spiking very fast at the moment, as you can see by the other photo so it probably needs more light in October. I have put a light over it to come on morning and evening to lengthen the daylight. If we get some results from Geoff's light switch I will try one of those.
David

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: 013, Phalaenopsis lowii (2)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 10:30

There is no getting away from the fact that you sure do grow the smaller Phalaenopsis very well, but when I see a photo of your plant with the moss between the roots and the cork bark, I wonder if you have tried growing them without the moss. This would enable the roots to make a tight hold straight away.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: 013, Phalaenopsis lowii (2)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:45

Hello Rodge,
You have asked me that before, I do grow some bare root and they grow very well like that. Look at the picture I sent and a bare root plant is on the bottom left, the green is algae on the cork. I mounted Phal lowii bare root when it came out of the flask and it is really tight on the bark, but the problem is the flowering failures so I am keeping the roots more moist in the moss. It seems to help because it has to grow a new set of leaves every year, being deciduous, and spikes very fast. If I kept it too dry by going out for a couple of days it would probably suffer. The only way to imitate the monsoon is to cover the roots in moss and drench them every morning. I pick the moss off in the Autumn and mist the roots every couple of days through the Winter so it doesn't lose all it's leaves. Most Phallies grow only a couple of new leaves a year, this one has grown eight new leaves since March and needs to flower before the dry season.
Do you read Jim's e-mails carefully? I find them very descriptive and much more informative than the hand books. Lots of fluffy moss and wet, wet, wet. 1 metre rain a month. Don't think I can copy that very easily without a lot of expensive equipment. I know it doesn't come from Jim's area but the climate is similar.
David

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Phrags and feed
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:10

Do you feed your phrags with the same mix and at the same strength as
everything else ?

Do you in fact use one and the same mix for everything ? I do − correction,
did.

But some months ago I heard a talk by a well-known phrag grower ( Andy
Phillps, one time chair of the Paph Society ) who has certainly shown great
Phrags for many years ; he said that he uses an EC of about 1000 − 1200 (
1-1.2 Siemens). I was almost shocked, and regarded this as an aberration .
Maybe he had a wonky meter ; maybe he meant something else, who knows.

But a few days ago I hear another good grower ( Mike Armstrong) actually
giving a talk about Cattleya species − has the National Collection, it is
said, and he certainly showed pics of very many species and varieties, and
clearly knew what he was talking about there, at least ; he made a
throw-away remark when talking about something else, to the effect that he
fed his Phrags twice as strong as the Catts. Later I established that he
feeds his catts the way I feed everything ( 600EC). BTW I have played about
with feed levels in the past, and when I settled on 600 it was with
hydroponics but essentially with Perlite as an inorganic compost , and I
always intended to use lower levels when using organic compost because the
latter releases nutrients as it breaks down , but through laziness or by
mistake I ended up using the same 600 on everything, perhaps for 7 years or
more (?) without apparent harm.

But today I used 1000 on the phrags. I'm not too sure of myself here − they
are growing nicely, and that usually means will flower nicely − but there
always room for improvements.

Will be very glad to have comments and a discussion on all this. Please
contribute.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: David's Phalaenopsis.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:40

Sure enough I did ask you maybe the same or similar question before, but it is nice to hear it again, especially when as you say, the information from other members, such as our 'Costa Rican' friend Jim tells us about.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] David's Phalaenopsis.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:50

Hello Rodge,
The deciduous one is Phal lowii, it's the one in the photo and covered in moss that you enquired about. There are quite a few more deciduous ones but this is the one giving me all the trouble. The idea is to give just enough moisture to keep a leaf or two during the Winter. When it starts growing in the spring the old couple of leaves slowly drop off as the new leaves grow. I have put a light over it today and hope that helps. I intend buying a light meter and pester Geoff about his light switch.
David

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing: 003 (2), 008 (4)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:45

Hello All.
Here's a couple of photos.
1) Phal lindenii. Flowering quite well this year and not a scrap of moss in sight.

I have been using a new fertilizer developed at Michigan State University and sold by Akerne Orchids as Rain mix. My plants are growing well and maybe the higher flower count of Phal lindenii is as a result of this.
Has anybody else been using it and found their plants are growing and flowering better?

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] David's Phalaenopsis.
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:45

Here is a photo I took at Newbury in 2005. It shows a Phalaenopsis in flower with no leaves. I had always meant to ask about it.
Regards

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Emailing: Phalaenopsis braceana 001, Phalaenopsis braceana 002, Phalaenopsis braceana 003
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:15

Hello Dennis,
Have just taken these photos of Phal braceana "correct spelling". Yes it's deciduous but I got one small leaf and one full sized leaf before flowering. The pictures are poor because it's pouring outside and the only decent light is in the garden.
David

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: light sensors and all that...
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:25

I have set-up my new sensors. They are designed to switch lights on at night
, so the range is from 0 Lux upwards − said to be to 1000+. I found that one
of them brought the lights on when the available light on them was approx
3.5k Lux, but the other didn't. I think I want the lights on when the
available light falls below say 5k Lux ( in the roof of the greenhouse). I
intend to remind myself what the light level is in the winter when the sun
shines fitfully or better, and anything below that I want the lights to come
on). I "tuned" the not working one with a strip of black tape, and that has
done the trick so far. Since we have grey skies and rain forecast for
several days now, I should have plenty of further opportunities for
fine-tuning this week.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Fertiliser strength
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:30

Back in the 1990's I spent a lot of time with Bob Dadd as at the time he seemed the only person talking sense about water and fertiliser. His hypothesis was that heavy feeding plants such as Cymbidium, Lycastineae and Coelogyne could take fertilisers up to 1000ms but prior to the drier rest period thry should be well flushed through with water. This means that if they did dry out the roots would not be covered in dry chemicals so not allowing them to breathe. All my other orchids are fed at 600ms but never dry out.
Converly I know onegrower/trader who only uses rap water.
Regards

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: 003 (2), 008 (4)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:40

Yes Akerne Rain Mix me too for about a year now. Before that I was using a hydroponic fertiliser mix with a similar high N,K and low ( but not quite as low) P value, then adding Ca in the form of CaNO3 and Mg as MgSO4 via a foliar spray a bit fiddly to mix up, and I needed to remember to do the foliar feed bit afterwards. So the Akerne mix formula is N13 P3 K15 CaO11 MgO3 immediately struck me as a good short-cut.

I am a little wary of such extremely low P value it seems to me that in theory this should be fine for almost continuously growing orchids Oncids, Phals etc, but less good for those plants which go into a rest condition deciduous ones as the extreme, because they obviously need more ATP later on when they start into growth out of rest − Michigan actually developed it for annual growers, not perennials.

But, to be sure, I do a foliar feed spray with a trace element mix occasionally, even using that very expensive stuff Superthrive now and then.

> ...I have been using a new fertilizer developed at Michigan State
> University and sold by Akerne Orchids as Rain mix. My plants are
> growing well and maybe the higher flower count of Phal lindenii is
> as a result of this.

> Has anybody else been using it and found their plants are growing
> and flowering better?

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: P. Lowii.`
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:20

This was one of the website options that came up after I keyed in: Phalaenopsis Lowii.

Just wondered if you knew about it. A very nice piece of information, but I do not get that much excited about the adverts for certain fertiliser.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Spiralis spiranthes.
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:25

Just thirteen days ago I searched very carefully in two areas of the New Forest where I know that this orchid grows. The ground was very dry from the long drought, and I saw nothing at all...not a sign of any orchid whatsoever.

Yesterday I had another look [from the car window as it was pouring with rain] and would you believe it, there they were taking the micky out of me.

Thirteen days ago nothing, and now plants some four inches high and the bottom part of the flower spikes had blooms on them.

The leaf rosette was only just visible, and of course will grow and stand all through the winter.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: 003 (2), 008 (4)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:05

I looked at the formula that you wrote about, and I have no doubt that it may work for you, but I for one think that all of the 'Letters and numbers' might scare any newcomers away.

From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phrags and feed
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:20

I am trying a phrag this year geoff and have been advised to keep it with
a quarter inch of water in its saucer − do you do this?
Regards, Alex

> Do you feed your phrags with the same mix and at the same strength as
> everything else ?
>
> Do you in fact use one and the same mix for everything ? I do -
> correction,
> did...

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: 003 (2), 008 (4)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:55

Oh Roger, thank you so, so much for that. I laughed so much that my wife came out to see what had caused my mirth.

Miraclegro is geat stuff I use it on my leeks and rhubarb but almost the same ho ho my milkmans nag is almost the same as horse which won the Derby this year.

> I looked at the formula that you wrote about, and I have no doubt
> that it may work for you, but I for one think that all of the
> 'Letters and numbers' might scare any newcomers away.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] P. Lowii.`
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 23:15

Hello Rodge,
Thanks I had a look, found another called Phal lowii anglais gives more detail about the light requirement. I photocopied the site last year but it has been amended with the extra information.
David

> This was one of the website options that came up after I keyed in:
> Phalaenopsis Lowii.

> Just wondered if you knew about it. A very nice piece of
> information, but I do not get that much excited about the adverts
> for certain fertiliser.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Emailing: 003 (2), 008 (4)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:25

Glad something made you laugh, did you ever research Miracle Gro to see who first formulated it???

> Oh Roger, thank you so, so much for that. I laughed so much that my
> wife came out to see what had caused my mirth.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phrags and feed
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:00

I am not doing this at the present time, but it is something which I have
very often done in the past − but only in the brighter growing months- not
in the winter. BTW I have tried them in permanent standing water, using
Perlite as the growing medium,( the system I have called hydroculture ) but
they did not so well as to make me think it worth pursueing.

> I am trying a phrag this year geoff and have been advised to keep
> it with a quarter inch of water in its saucer − do you do this?

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Spiralis spiranthes.
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 17:10

Roger, you must be having a laugh. In North Devon we have not had a rain free day for at least 3weeks. I managed to cut the grass and do some weeding 2 weeks ago. Today is dry and sunny and I have spent 4 hours hacking/cuttung a 9 inch tall lawn. The bucket I use for putting the weeds in is half full with water.
A session of drought would go a long way tolifting the spirits
Regards

> Hi all, Just thirteen days ago I searched very carefully in two
> areas of the New Forest where I know that this orchid grows. The
> ground was very dry from the long drought, and I saw nothing at
> all...not a sign of any orchid whatsoever...

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:50

Hello All,
Has anyone changed the glass in their greenhouse for 10mm triple wall polycarbonate?
I have an aluminium greenhouse and think it might pay for itself in electricity costs in a short time.
How did you seal the ends of the polycarbonate to avoid condensation in the tubes, and how did you fix it in place? Maybe the spring clips can still be used. Because the sheets can't be overlapped I thought of leaving 3mm gaps between the sheets and filling with flexible polycarbonate sealer to allow for expansion.
All ideas welcome,
David

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Spiralis spiranthes.
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:20

We did have a drought − I'm on the opposite − western edge- of the New
Forest from old Rog' − and much of April, May, June, and July were very low
in rainfall ; driest year since 1929 they said. But in the last 10 days we
have had about 75mm rain ; enough for large parts of that grey/brown area
between my study and the greenhouse to turn green again − aha − I almost
have a lawn !

I'll have to ask you what to do about mowing it , I've not done It for so
long, the lawnmower is covered in cobwebs; most year's here, I have to mow
every month through the winter ( not 2009-2010 which was a bad one) but this
year I have only done it a couple of times since Christmas !

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:45

My Cotswold main greenhouse used triple-walled polycarb, I think it was 16
or 18mm thick ; it was excellent. Note that it is supposed to have a 7 (?)
year life because of UV degradation, but mine was still good when the
greenhouse was demolished ( after I had sold the house) some 10 years after
it was erected.

The heat insulation in winter was surprisingly good, but the factor I had
not reckoned on was the heat insulation in the summer too − the greenhouse
never went too hot in the summer ( but of course I did use shade cloth) and
as for the winter − I brought the heating engineer in at Christmas the first
year, telling him I needed a little more heat as the house was not keeping
as warm as I wanted ; he checked, and said " your boiler is not working, it
never has worked, the electric supply has not been connected to the circuit
board." . In case this seems odd, that I had not recognised this, the
heating system was underfloor warm water pipes buried in the concrete
screed, so not accessible to test by putting one's hand on.

I tried to get a similar construction when I moved here, but the width I
wanted − 15 feet or thereabouts, was such that I would have had to go to one
of the really expensive custom-made builders for the frame ( any span over
say 5 feet horizontal width involves the possibility of wind stress -
effectively if the wind is blowing a 40 mph gale up the channel, and the
wind drops, it is the same as suction and can flex the polycarb to the point
where it can pull out of the frame ; this is partly due to the fact that the
poly sheets are so large − in the Cotswolds my sheets were 1.5m wide and
almost 6m long) so I went to Hartley and bought their standard Botanic
construction which used heavier than usual safety glass. A great pity.

BTW I did a lot of calculations about light transmission, running costs, and
capital costs for different polycarb/glass combinations some years ago,
which Tricia has tucked away somewhere on our Orchid-Talk site.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Weather petterns.
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:05

Dennis, I was surprised to hear that you had so much rain and that you hardly had a rain free day for three weeks. And as Geoff said, his lawnmower had cobwebs on it....mine also.

Driest since 1929 and it sure shows. My mate in South Australia says that our chats have been reversed regarding the weather.

Strange thing is that some plants are now only starting to move, where they would have been in bloom many weeks ago.

Maybe the Autumn ladies Tresses will be in great condition when I venture out on maybe Tuesday. I don't venture out on Bank Holidays as there are far too many Grockles about.

From: sheila bicknell
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 10:25

David,
I have triple wall polycarbonate on my greenhouse, but it is a wooden construction so easier for attaching the stuff to. You would certainly see an improvement in temperature / heat loss.

My first thought is could you just line the inside of the greenhouse with the polycarb ? leaving the glass in place. Preferably leave a small airspace between the glass and the polycarb. This would give you even more layers of insulation. Maybe use some sort of wooden battens to which the polycarb could be fixed ?
For exterior fitting they do sell strips of plastic edging for sealing the ends, but this could also be achieved by using the exterior grade adhesive tape ('duck' or 'elephant' tape in UK)
If you decide to go down the route of replacing the glass with polycarb please make sure that the fixing is extra secure, one of my 4 meter lengths ended up in a neighbours tree in a gale! luckily it was retrievable and reusable − but extra internal battens were immediately added and all the sheets more securely screwed down to them.
Hope this helps, Sheila

From: Bill Haldane
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:20

Hello David,
I had a new orchid house a few months ago made by Roseman Greenhouses of Coventry using 10mm multi-wall polycarbonate. The house is glazed using single glazing panels per aperture with U-shaped plastic end closures sealed with resin glue. The panels are held in place with conventional clips which is possible because of the generous depth of the glazing bars.
Hope this is helpful.
Regards Bill

From: Tricia Garner
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Attention re Dinton Pastures Orchid Fair
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:55

If any Southern Uk members haven't yet been to the Orchid Fair and
intend to go tomorrow, be warned! Take full expedition kit (including
industrial-strength paracetamol) as the road on the approach from the
Winnersh direction is closed and the diversion signs, whilst good in
parts, are missing in a few vital areas...

When you come away, turn left and turn left again at the pub − unless
someone has adjusted the Diversion sign, you won't see it until you
have gone past in the wrong direction. You then come to a T-junction
where there was no sign − turn left again. There are various places
where the diversion signs don't appear until you are committed to
what turns out to be the wrong lane, unless someone is already
sorting it out. There were a lot of complaints.

That said, it is worth going in my opinion − which means I bought
some plants, including a very nice Dendrobium sulawesii x lawesii
from Rolke, who had quite a lot to choose from.

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:45

Usually the ends are sealed with Breather Tape − which keeps dust out and various creepy crawlies too − but allows gases to move freely. You can get this from builders merchants which sell the sheeting. The ends can then have a u shaped former placed over them if needed.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:00

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:40

Thanks for the information about your calculations. I found it without any problems. The savings in heating costs seem substantial. Don't think I need to worry about replacing in 10 years, probably won't be around by then, or just keeping a few favourites indoors.
David

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: My latest pictures.
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:50

440 C . Pink Jaguar ’Flower Girl' .Looking at this plant, flowering for the
first time with 5 (? Maybe more) flowers some 6 or 7cm across, I thought
that it should be possible to grow the plant much bigger, since probably , I
thought − amethystoglossa is in there somewhere . But looking it up I find
that it is 1/3rd aclandiae, ¼ guttata. 1/8th loddigesii, a tiny pinch of
warnerii and about 1/10th each of mossiae, intermedia, granulosa and
forbesii . But when an orchid gets that complex, is this sort of thinking
any guide ? If it is, then none of these is very large as a plant , and my
30-40cm high cane/bulb may be a best. But the flowers have substance, and
that kind of waxy look one gets with say guttata, so I think they will be
long lasting.

441. Cycnoches loddigesii . I was convinced that I had flowered one of this
species in the past , but the flowers here are rather different ; I searched
my previous contributions in order to make comparisons, and maybe wonder if
both could be samples of one and the same species, but couldn't find it. So
maybe I am mistaken. However I do have another plant in early spike, which
could be the one I had in mind.

These are very large flowers ( perhaps 7-8 inches), north to south ,
although half of the size is the dependent dorsal sepal . Lovely perfume,
but the flowers not long lasting. Five flowers here.

442 (?) Euchile citrina.aka Cattleya citrina, Epidendrum ditto, Encyclia
ditto maybe it's a Sophro' now !

Whatever , Bingo, I did it( flowered this not so easy species ! ). I
bought it at Peterborough some few years ago , notionally of flowering size.
Each year my bulb size has increased slightly , this year a lot more, now
maybe 50% larger than the best on arrival, and this is the first spike and
flower seen. Of course they are one, or at best, two flowered, even in the
wild. Although excited at having cracked a difficult one, when the euphoria
faded, I doubt that it is really worth a place in the collection except as a
novelty or conversation piece with chance visitors ! The better, more
attractive view , the second picture, is a view only seen by doing what I am
here , lifting the flower with the hand.

444 Phrag grande. I haven't shown this plant for quite a while ; I divided
my 12 inch potful some time ago, and this is the first flowering. Several
other pieces look as though could flower this year too , although it's a bit
late now. I bought the plant from Keith Andrew when he had closed his Plush
nursery , 1992 ? for £20 and I have sold maybe 6 or more divisions for £25
each since then. A good buy !

445 Milt Royal Robe Diplomat . Nice Miltassia, now getting going well in
aquaculture , a third growth has a spike too. When here longer , this is the
first year of this system since going back to it, should double spike on
most growths.

446 V coerulea . The real McCoy, I think. A more delicate truer blue than
seen in the hybrids, usually , and the markings tending to be concentric.
Also, the lateral sepals tending to twist a little out of the plane of the
sepals , in some examples almost to be at right angles to that plane.
Excellent flower count , 11 or 12 here I think , and the first flowering of
a seedling bought from Kenneth a year ago. The trick is to keep them from
going into rest, perhaps , and then it should get better and better as time
goes by.

447 V Dr Anek x coerulea. Nothing special about this hybrid but I put it in
for comparison. The formula for easy flowering large Vandas, is take a good
4n blue hybrid, and back-cross to coerulea. This gives triploids which are
easy to grow and flower , but usually sterile, but who cares about that, who
( here in UK) would be mad enough to want to try and breed Vandas !

448 V Fuchs Delight 'Pink' . This ought to be a meristem . But I have
another plant with the same name, bought together ( I often buy two of
something) shown recently as No.422 which is very different. They can't both
be right, I think. Comments ?

449 C Siam Jade 'Auo' Such a glorious clean flower. I vaguely remember
something about Siam Jade , its not a proper name or something , but this is
what my label says, so I'll leave it for the moment.

450 Xylobium pallidifloxum. An interesting little species this , and has two
other spikes from the latest bulb. I want to grow it on to be a panful ,
with these flowers all round. Its curious, as the only other Xylobium I ever
had was X.squalens, which I thought well-named for rather squalid flowers,
but this is different, and in the mass will be delightful.

451 Bulbo or cirrho sp. Don't know the name . Wish I did. I like it for its
perfect symmetry. Now in a six inch saucer, growing nicely, 5 leads, each
flowering or in bud , but covering too large an area to be worth showing the
whole plant.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:45

I have several different clones, that usually flower in winter, and Milton that
is suppossed to flower in the summer,
it is ensifloum ( sp ) based so it likes it warmer. I have 3 zones in my green
house to do my own little experiment on growing and flowering. I have 8
cymbidiums in each zone.
zone 1 lots of light warmer and dryer. (full roof)
zone 2 lots of light slightly cooler and lots of rain ( 30% shade cloth )
zone 3 medium light slightly cooler and lots of rain (60% shade cloth )

So far in zone 1 they are starting to flower. zone 2 starting but much less.
Zone 3 nada!
ok so light is important! he is the rub, Milton the summer bloomer is not
blooming. the winter bloomers are blooming now! ?? I am fertilizing with a
20-20-20 to all equally.

Some people say to get Cymbs to flower dry lots of light and temperature change
is important, along with change the fertilizer (lowering the N to get them to
flower).
it seems to me that light is number 1 factor to initiate flowering, followed by
temp change.... fertilizer is less important or perhaps I am not fertilizing
them enough?

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:10

Hello Andy,
I have seen the tape advertised but was unaware of the u shaped end caps. I was worried the tape would fall of with time, but if it's covered up it should stop condensation in the tubes.

From: jns tropic
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] My latest pictures.
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 02:10

Your Milt Royal Robe 'Diplomat' looks very much like my Milt. Anne Warne, This is what I put on my blog: http://togofcoralgables.blogspot.com/
And here my site shows more pictures: http://togofcoralgables.com/MiltAnneWarne.aspx

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:50

The established belief in UK is that cool temperatures are needed at the
time when the buds are being initiated namely mid-summer, i.e. June, for
those Cymbidiums expected to flower the following January- March . It is my
understanding that they achieved this in Southern California by watering
every night in June, with a mixture of water and ice. In UK, nights in June
are often say 10-13 deg. C. so no problem − just leave the ventilators open
at night, and the heating was turned off anyway.

Of course there were no summer flowering cyms then, and miniatures were only
just starting and not grown for the cut flower trade anyway.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:45

coolness or large change in daily temperature? my guess from my experiment is large temp change high light and dryer. I spoke with a few folks in russia that use dryness as well to induce flowering which is anew theory to me but it seems in part to help.

the part that really confuses me is my summer bloomers are not blooming and the winter bloomers are....

>The established belief in UK is that cool temperatures are needed at the
>time when the buds are being initiated namely mid-summer, i.e. June, for
>those Cymbidiums expected to flower the following January- March . It is my
>understanding that they achieved this in Southern California by watering
>every night in June, with a mixture of water and ice. In UK, nights in June
>are often say 10-13 deg. C. so no problem − just leave the ventilators open>at night, and the heating was turned off anyway.
>
>Of course there were no summer flowering cyms then, and miniatures were only
>just starting and not grown for the cut flower trade anyway.

From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Phrags and feed
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:35

Yes, thanks Geoff, I think I will just keep it moist in the winter months.
Regards, Alex

> I am not doing this at the present time, but it is something which
> I have very often done in the past − but only in the brighter
> growing months- not in the winter. BTW I have tried them in
> permanent standing water, using Perlite as the growing medium,( the
> system I have called hydroculture ) but they did not so well as to
> make me think it worth pursueing.
>
> geoff

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:40

Its not so much the condensation to concern you, but what happens next when
there is a supply of moisture inside − growth of algae, loss of light
transmission . That's why its worth trying to seal the ends.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] My latest pictures.
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:45

The breeding is similar − both show a lot of M spectabilis v Moreliana ;
but your Anne Warne has a better lip, but less difference in colour between
tepals and lip. I have Anne Warne somewhere or other in my collection, too,
but perhaps not such a nice one as yours.

> Your Milt Royal Robe 'Diplomat' looks very much like my Milt. Anne Warne,
> This is what I put on my blog: http://togofcoralgables.blogspot.com/
> And here my site shows more pictures:
http://togofcoralgables.com/MiltAnneWarne.aspx

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:45

If its 25 by day, and 15 when watered, this is a good change in temperature
- which is critical is your guess ! ; its my belief − you will know much
better being near to where orchids really grow wild − but from my very
limited experience, it gets cold at night in the jungle, and in our
greenhouses in England we are afraid of letting plants get cold. Maybe we
should be heating by day and letting them cold at night. I'm not sure I am
brave enough to try this out.

JIM MATEOSKY wrote RE: [OrchidTalk] cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering

> coolness or large change in daily temperature? my guess from my
> experiment is large temp change high light and dryer. I spoke
> with a few folks in russia that use dryness as well to induce
> flowering which is anew theory to me but it seems in part to help.

> the part that really confuses me is my summer bloomers are not
> blooming and the winter bloomers are....

From: Alex
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Weather patterns.
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:50

Well the weather has been very patchy. We had a drought in may and june
and a hosepipe ban then july was the wettest for years with 340 mm (about
13.5 inches). August has been nearly as wet and cool and cloudy too.
Hose pipe has been lifted though!
Regards, Alex

> Mornin' Geoff and Dennis,
>
> Dennis, I was surprised to hear that you had so much rain and that you
> hardly had a rain free day for three weeks. And as Geoff said, his
> lawnmower had cobwebs on it....mine also.
>
> And Devon is not that far away.
>
> Driest since 1929 and it sure shows. My mate in South Australia says that
> our chats have been reversed regarding the weather.
>
> Strange thing is that some plants are now only starting to move, where
> they would have been in bloom many weeks ago.
>
> Dahlias, Mirabilis, and some others.
>
> Maybe the Autumn ladies Tresses will be in great condition when I venture
> out on maybe Tuesday. I don't venture out on Bank Holidays as there are
> far too many Grockles about.
>
> Cheers, Rodge.

From: john Stanley
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:50

Hi David and other polycarbonate contemplators!
We have had a Robinson's green house for some 8 or nine years. Originally we took the expensive plunge and glazed it with toughened glass but, almost immediately, realized that we could also glaze from the inside with 10 mm polycarbonate as well. We discovered that there was, then, a gap of 5 mm or so between the polycarbonate and the inside of the glass. Effectively, this gave us three walls with the intervening two cavities; poly-c, air, poly-c − air, glass. We consider that the glass adds strength to the green house and because of the heavy-duty Robinson's frame can be retained. We started with the roof and, as cash permitted with the ends and sides. We can't provide statistics on cost effectiveness but I once worked out conductive heat losses through the amazingly large surface area of the aluminium frame and our next project has to be capping the frame components with (?)expanded polystyrene. Somebody, somwhere , must have worked out properly, the heat losses through glazing, ground and frame

Because our greenhouse is rather overfull, the prospect of doing much more inside is daunting but fellow greenhouse owners may be interested in a method derived from an idea of Geoff's; we wrapped the outside of the greenhouse with bubble plastic and then with a smooth plastic sheet. This certainly provides good winter insulation but there is a snag. Unless you go to the expense of UV resistant bubble and sheet the sheeting will last only a year. Although our fuel bill for winter 09-10 was cheaper than for 08-09, I am not sure that we offset the cost of plastic. Incidentally, out of sheer laziness, we didn't get around to removing the external bubble wrap until this summer! The multi-layers of polyvarbonate, glass, bubble plastic and sheet polyethylene saved us the trouble of shading!

Manufacturers seem to have it made; we are recommended to avoid the shade of trees when siting an orchid house, then we are advised to shade it (!) then to insulate it. I seem to have discovered the all-purpose sahde-insulative method.

From: sheila bicknell
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:05

Hello Jim, I had been wondering how you were getting on with the Cymbidiums these days, your trial is interesting with the 3 zones, − you may find that those in zone 3 just bloom later, maybe you should reduce the shading in there now and give a high Potash feed − if you have pure Sulphate of Potash make this up at 1000 EC and just give them that once or maybe twice, then go back to the balanced, or even the balanced plus a bit extra potash.
I think you are right that light is a big factor, but Geoff''s comment too about the night temperature drop (here in the UK to about 10C − or at least 10C difference between day and night, for as many nights as possible during June/July) does seem to spur the plants into producing spikes. I do believe that flowering these plants is a bit of a lottery − and much of it governed by Mother Nature, I have had some really bad years and some brilliant years, all of the bad blooming seasons seem to follow a long hot summer heat waves etc. and this is what we have just had here in the UK.
During this summer I have used fertilisers at strengths the same as in previous good years but the spike count is not too good as yet. We are now forecast to be getting much cooler nights, 10C or lower even, so I am still hoping for improvement − maybe just a more spread out season. I shall also be giving a pure sulphate of potash feed to all plants not yet showing spikes.
All my plants have been outside since early June, some have had 30% shade cloth, others double, during the hot weather of July and early August. All shading has now been removed and stored away. I shall start cleaning up the plants showing spikes and return them to the greenhouse soon, the others will be left outside until they spike or until it is just too cold and wet.

You mentioned your Milton (Carpenter) a summer bloomer − I have a Golden Elf, one of the parents of Milton, which is in bloom now, 8 spikes, but not as good as last year when it had 12. It took years before it bloomed properly, sometimes it had a couple of spikes in the summer and then another couple or so in the winter. I got so fed up with it I nearly put it in a club auction − glad I didn't !!

Regards, Sheila
PS the 'dryness' bit applies to the cooler/winter conditions, when (hopefully) the plants are in flower.

From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] My latest pictures.
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:15

http://www.odoms.com/images/inventory/Eplc.%20Siam%20Jade%20%27AVO%27%20copy
.jpg

I looked it up because I liked your flower, however , the request for Auo
asked me if I meant Avo and this brought up plenty of images like this one!

> 449 C Siam Jade 'Auo' Such a glorious clean flower. I vaguely
> remember something about Siam Jade , its not a proper name or
> something , but this is what my label says, so I'll leave it for
> the moment.

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Attention re Dinton Pastures Orchid Fair
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:30

Thanks for that Tricia , although I had already got wind of the closure,
maybe when I looked at the BOGA site for opening times.

I went today ; last year I went on Saturday and it took for ever to get home
on Saturday/lunch-time/afternoon... M3 !

I think our road traffic now is as bad as it was before we started building
motorways, when it was said that "yes we know its going to be expensive to
update our road system, but we simply can't afford to have half the country
grid-locked for half the time" − since then we have had the rise of the
environmentalists, and now the carbon footprinters, but its still just as
true , we can't afford to have half the country grid-locked etc etc...

So this year I went on Sunday morning, usually the best time for travelling
I find. And had quick journeys − apart from going round Basingstoke 17
times. Why is it that on the return journey "M3" appears on every signpost,
but going north "M4" never appears ?

However, I had nice chats with David Stead − who was supposed to be retiring
last Xmas... and Ian Plested − we commiserated with each other as two old
men , long acquainted, both of us complaining about forgetting words etc .
Ian said he has tablets to help against memory loss; he's not sure if they
do any good, at all events, he keeps forgetting to take them.. a short chat
with Roy Barrow , another with Roy Smith on Ivens stand − see below...and a
business chat with Hilmar Bauch ; nodded to Nick Wales and Sara Ritt'...
bought a few interesting things.

Ivens are having a closing down sale . They say they are retiring ; I expect
we all know the story about what happened when Terry died, and the heirs
couldn't agree, so each asked the other to buy them out... and then they
tried to sell, we all laughed at the asking price, so here we are. For a
stock/price list e-mail info@ivensorchids.co.uk. They say everything must
go , we'll see if they have more sensible ideas about prices now ; judging
by their prices at Dinton Pastures, the answer is not yet. Still I've asked
for the list.

> If any Southern Uk members haven't yet been to the Orchid Fair and
> intend to go tomorrow, be warned! Take full expedition kit
> (including industrial-strength paracetamol) as the road on the
> approach from the Winnersh direction is closed and the diversion
> signs, whilst good in parts, are missing in a few vital areas...

From: sheila bicknell
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 23:35

Geoff 's message said:
'it gets cold at night in the jungle, and in our
greenhouses in England we are afraid of letting plants get cold. Maybe we
should be heating by day and letting them cold at night. I'm not sure I am
brave enough to try this out.' -
Geoff, I did try something similar a few years ago when the cymbidiums were
refusing to bloom − rather, I closed the greenhouse up every morning and
opened the door and all vents in the evening, and no heating of course, I
think it must have been late September/October time − but I cant say it did
any good − on that occasion they still didn't bloom, but at least I tried..
Regards, Sheila

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] My latest pictures.
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 08:10

A nicer flower than mine ; but mine is a first flowering. Could
improve/change on a later growth

I bought it from a source which I know to be a bit weak on names , so mine
probably is A.V.O. Was your source Orchidwiz ? I have that , and it often
offers several images of several clones , I'll look it up when I have time,
but as usual; I have 12 jobs to finish before lunch , and I shouldn't be
here reading my e-mail, but getting on with them

http://www.odoms.com/images/inventory/Eplc.%20Siam%20Jade%20%27AVO%27%20copy.jpg

From: Geoffrey Hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 08:15

My non UV treated bubble on the outside of my greenhouse lasted 4 years, ( I
am fairly sure but not 100%, on this , take it as plus or minus 1 year at
most ). It then disintegrated to something rather like confetti !

When I sought replacement, I found that the UV treated stuff was about twice
the price, and expected to last 6-7 years.and I could only buy it in 3m
width − rather awkward to handle. this I emphasise is the twin wall, trapped
bubbles, flexible poly stuff − not polycarbonate sheeting. I bought the
untreated .

From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Polycarbonate sheeting
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:45

I fully lined my wooden framed Dutch light house inside the glass. About 4
or 5 years ago ..... or was it more?

Having been following the thread on this topic, it did cross my mind that
the polycarbonate could last longer on the inside than the outside due to
filtering (blocking) of some wavelengths of the sunlight.

Time will tell ........ but as mentioned yesterday, it gives almost triple
insulation using twin-walled type!

From: geoffrey hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:50

sheila bicknell wrote Re: [OrchidTalk] cymbidiums gurus − light and dryness − flowering

> Geoff 's message said:
> 'it gets cold at night in the jungle, and in our
> greenhouses in England we are afraid of letting plants get cold. Maybe we
> should be heating by day and letting them cold at night. I'm not sure I am
> brave enough to try this out.' -
> Geoff, I did try something similar a few years ago when the cymbidiums were
> refusing to bloom − rather, I closed the greenhouse up every morning and
> opened the door and all vents in the evening, and no heating of course, I
> think it must have been late September/October time − but I cant say it did
> any good − on that occasion they still didn't bloom, but at least I tried..
> Regards, Sheila

From: peter williams
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Can anyone identify this Bulbophyllum?
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:20

I wonder if this list has any Bulbophyllum experts? I am a trying to confirm the identity of a Bulbophyllum we found flowering in Thailand in March. Photo attached. I sent a specimen of the flower to 'Kew' but they identified it as B. wallichii − which I have also seen in the wild and looks completely different from the flower that I sent them. I can't understand how they have made such an obvious mistake! I then sent a photo of the flower to Jaap J Vermeulen who is the world expert on Bulbophyllums at Singapore Botanic Gardens − but the letter was returned earlier this week marked 'gone away'. So I am hoping that someone here may be a keen Bulbo grower and may have seen this species and be able to identify it for me!

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Autumn Ladies Tresses
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:35

What a truly fantastic day we have had in the New Forest area. Glorious weather. This morning it started with a cloudless sky, and although a little cloud was there through the afternoon, the evening is yet glorious again with a cloudless sky and hardly any wind.

Image 01. A general view.
Image 02. Hard to find?
Image 03. So, which way do they twist?
Image 04. A 'Gigantic' specimen.
Image 05. Four in tight bud.
Image 06. New leaf rosettes just showing which will stand all through the Winter and die away in the late Spring.
Image 07. Close up of leaf rosette.
Image 08. There may well be two styles of flower???
Image 09. Is what looks like a 'sugary' edge to the lip to entice pollinators?

I did see two Bee's on different occasions visit a flower, but they only landed for maybe three seconds and they did look far too large.

When I visit this site in about five or six days time I will hope to find a broken off stem and they I will bring it home and put it under the microscope, because as you can see, the 'tube' of the lip and sepals is quite long and the pollinia are difficult to see.

From: francis quesada pallares
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Can anyone identify this Bulbophyllum?
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:50

> I wonder if this list has any Bulbophyllum experts? I am a trying
> to confirm the identity of a Bulbophyllum we found flowering in
> Thailand in March. Photo attached...

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2010 Archived Messages

22—31 August