August 22 - 31 2009 mailing list messages

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From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Re [OrchidTalk] Cattleya Taiwan Green Emerald 2 names wanted please ? and my atest pics with comments.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:50

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Physan
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:10

Physan is a mixture of quaternary ammonium chloride isomers. The same
or similar mixtures are used worldwide as antibacterial and antialgal
disinfectants, thus are used widely by janitorial services, and are
also used in commercial kitchens and other food preparation areas, and
cleaning of swimming pools. Different manufacturers might list a
differing mixture of isomers, but they are all quaternary ammonium
chloride soups and are used similarly. Rather than spend double or
more the money per unit volume for a bottle of Physan, I now buy it by
the gallon jug for proportionately much less. I have found it easily
at janitorial suppliers, swimming pool and hot tub dealerships, and
hardware stores. As with Physan it will need to be diluted, and I
dilute it to approximately 1-2% for regular use on orchids. However,
I have used it as strong as 10% and found no damage. If Physan is
being limited in the U.K., I suggest that you look for the janitorial
version − same chemicals, lower prices, larger volumes.

BTW, q.a.c's also have use in killing the immature stages of scales
and other pests.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: Re [OrchidTalk] Cattleya Taiwan Green Emerald 2 names wanted please ? and my atest pics with comments.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:45

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Physan
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:25

This is very helpful. There must be a lot of swimming pools in an area a few
miles from where I live ( "the most expensive houses in England, outside
Mayfair" − aka Sandbanks, on Poole Harbour) --- I live on the opposite and
cheaper side away from Bournemouth − not exactly "the wrong side of the
tracks" − just a bit less flashy...on the edge of the Forest.

From: Paul Johnson
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Physan
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:15

These quat. ammonium chloride solutions also have some detergent
characteristics and seem non-reactive with acephate and imidachloprid
solutions. So, when I do use these insecticides I will use the q.a.c.
instead of a more expensive spreader or liquid dish soap. Caveat: I
know of no objective study of such mixtures, published or not, and my
use is over the last year only and not comparative, so my assessment
is anecdotal only.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Schoenorchis fragrans.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:00

Many months ago, David showed us his images of this delightful tiny orchid and I for one was very much delighted with it, so................................I purchased one from our 'Italian Friend's.

And of course I am very pleased with it. As to the botanical reference.....'fragrans'.....it is so small that I wonder who can detect the fragrance???

Having seen some excellent images of this orchid on the Internet, I hope to grow mine into a specimen plant, which will maybe see me having to do a bit of carpentry as David did and let the piece of cork bark into a larger piece.

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Kagara or kagawara
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:00

Yes, it is a stunning colour. Compare it with my Kagawara and I think it is even
better.

PS. Are you sure that your Phal is a species? I can not find it in one of my books.
It is probably
a hybrid

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Physan
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:05

Thanks Paul. It has reminded me that the man that laid my patio told me to go to the local farm supplier and buy the dairy cleaning chemical to get rid of moss, algae etc. On Monday Iwill go down to Cornwall Farmers and investigate. Regards

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Phalaenopsi hybrids
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:45

Here's a few photo's of my Phal hybrids out today. Everything seems to
be coming into flower at the same time. Even my schilleriana and
phillipinensis are in spike.
David

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Physan
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:35

Geoff,
Have a look at "Safe4" and "Virkon" these seem to be the same as Physan but
I haven't looked too carefully into it yet.
David

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Physan
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:10

You are right about the detergent effect − I regard it as a useful wetting
agent . I use it in my nutrient/water mix all the time − 1 : 1000 works
fine. I just put half a small yoghurt pot ( say 90ml ) of it in a 100 litre
container ( an English dustbin) and fill with water, then add my nutrients,
and correct pH....

> These quat. ammonium chloride solutions also have some detergent
> characteristics and seem non-reactive with acephate and imidachloprid
> solutions. So, when I do use these insecticides I will use the q.a.c.
> instead of a more expensive spreader or liquid dish soap. Caveat: I
> know of no objective study of such mixtures, published or not, and my
> use is over the last year only and not comparative, so my assessment
> is anecdotal only.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:15

> Many months ago, David showed us his images of this delightful tiny orchid
> and I for one was very much delighted with it,
> so................................I purchased one from our 'Italian
> Friend's.

> And of course I am very pleased with it. As to the botanical
> reference.....'fragrans'.....it is so small that I wonder who can
> detect the fragrance???

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:45

As far as I know nobody has detected any fragrance on this orchid. The name is
a mystery.

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Physan for the floor
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:20

Interesting, I would very much like to hear how this works, how strong do you mix it to "keep the floor from turning green". I worked at tring this for a while but t seemed like a battle that I ws loosing. My green house is open to the wind just some shade cloth. the moss grows everywhere all the time. my biggest concern is when spraying strong solutios on the floor they some spray gets on the orchids. I think the moss and lichens here are the nuclear mutent varity for the horror movies. I often joke that if I stop cleaning, cutting, weeding the garden the jungle will take over in a year ( exageration, but in 10 years I bleive is not).

> Thanks Paul. It has reminded me that the man that laid my patio
> told me to go to the local farm supplier and buy the dairy cleaning
> chemical to get rid of moss, algae etc. On Monday Iwill go down to
> Cornwall Farmers and investigate.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Schoenorchis fragrans.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:35

Geoff's comments about my Schoenorchis...'Nice one Roger − good pic too' !.....thanks Geoff, as it prompted me to do something that had slipped my mind.

One was to measure the size of an individual flower, and two, after looking at the photo which of course was taken on a macro setting, was to have a look with an eyeglass at the column of a flower. It did look very interesting.

And when I was looking at the flower through an eyeglass I saw how interesting the flower looked sideways on.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Kagara or kagawara
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:05

Kagawaras are obviously the thing to get − this is my only one, but I'll be
on the lookout...

As to the colour − yes I agree ; but I have to say that I have found great
difficulty in getting anywhere near a true representation of the colour of
many of these orchids ; I'll have to investigate a bit − I was using ProPlus
as the colour space − which is supposed to be the widest gamut ( I think)
but it now occurs to me that I have been using an older Nikon running on
Adobe 1998 ......

> Yes, it is a stunning colour. Compare it with my Kagawara and I think it is
> even better.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Schoenorchis fragrans.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:05

Not an easy task as you can see, but at least it shows the lip end curled up in the bud stage, which never completely unfurls. Also it shows the nice spur.

If you look at the top left flower, you can just make out the sticky viscidium, which I will investigate further.........when I can find my Jeweller's eyeglass.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Kagawara
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:40

Peter, it is Kagawara Samrerng ( spelling as per adverts) by many nurseries advertising it but the name doesn't come up on the RHS register.
Don't know what the parents are at all.

From: Roy Lee
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: UPDATE on Kagawara
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:05

Peter, when checking the RHS register, I put in the normal spelling of Kagawara but the listing is miss spelt on this plant.
The name is correct at Kagawara Samrerng and the parents are Renanthera Nancy Chandler x Ascda Madame Panni.

From: sheila bicknell
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Physan
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:00

For what it's worth − you can get the Virkon that David mentioned from Farmer's/Agricultural suppliers, a close neighbour keeps a few sheep (as pets), she got me some recently at our local SCATS, apparently it is the stuff they had to use during the foot and mouth outbreak, for all boot cleansing before entering or leaving the property, also straw drenched in it for vehicle tyre disinfecting. According to an article David copied for me RHS Wisley use it to cleanse tools and equipment when repotting orchids.

Having said all that I still hope to find some Physan on sale at Dinton next weekend, I hope to see Malcolm of MAM Horticulture, my normal supplier (usually shares a stand with Peter White), be interesting to hear what he has to say on this matter.
Regards, Sheila

From: nancy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Kagawara
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:35

Hello -
Wildcatt has Kagawaara Samrerng; parents are Renanthera Nancy Chandler x Ascocenda Madame Panni, registered 1977 by S. Somboonpol.
Regards − Nancy

> Peter, it is Kagawara Samrerng ( spelling as per adverts) by many
> nurseries advertising it but the name doesn't come up on the RHS
> register. Don't know what the parents are at all.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: For a change
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:30

At the 2008 RHS Orchid show I purchased an Angulocaste Seedling from a Taiwanese Company - KENDOLIE. It is a very complex hybrid and I will not quote it but I have named it Anguloaste The Judge urg. The flower is a magnificent 15cms across and this is the first of two to open.
Regards

From: Gordon Walker
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] For a change
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:55

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] For a change
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:15

Good growing , great orchid, super pic... but why so modest , why not
Anguloaste Dennis Read ? And why urg − why not send a form off to The
Registrar , and make it official ?

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] For a change
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:15

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk Kagawara
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:00

Yes it is often difficult to get the right colour.
With this one I was lucky. It just came right on the first try. I did not adjust
anything, except for the sixe.

> Kagawaras are obviously the thing to get − this is my only one, but I'll be
> on the lookout...
>
> As to the colour − yes I agree ; but I have to say that I have found great
> difficulty in getting anywhere near a true representation of the colour of
> many of these orchids ; I'll have to investigate a bit − I was using ProPlus
> as the colour space − which is supposed to be the widest gamut ( I think)
> but it now occurs to me that I have been using an older Nikon running on
> Adobe 1998 ......

From: PG Hieke
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] UPDATE on Kagawara
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:10

> Peter, when checking the RHS register, I put in the normal
> spelling of Kagawara but the listing is miss spelt on this
> plant. The name is correct at Kagawara Samrerng and the
> parents are Renanthera Nancy Chandler x Ascda Madame Panni.

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:10

NIce one Roger. I Recently acuuired S manipurensis, which seems to be very similar. Will post a pic if I can get it to flower.

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Brassavola perrinii
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:20

I put up a photo of the roots a few weeks ago. Now in flower and rather fine I think. I have one in the cool section( pictured) and another in the warmer end. Both flowering at the same tim and very fragrant at night. I notice though that the perfumes are different. I though maybe because of differential volatility of component oils?

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: A COUPLE OF MINIS
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:35

Here are a couple of interesting species from Central and South America. Not easy to photograph − the autofocus does not know what to respond to. Interestingly the IOSPE site says grow in full shade which is what I started to do. However my friend whohas seen them in the wild says they are twig epiphyes and grow in high light. Since I moved them they are very happy and flower well. I am glad I am not to fastidious at removing spent spikes − both of these reflower from the old spikes!

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] For a change
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:20

The label with the plant says "Lyc.Geyser Gold x Lyc.((Capicom Vulcan) x Angcst. Paul Gripp) .
I doubt that the registrar would accept it. Also the Taiwan Company, KENDOLIE Agri Tech, that did the mericloning would agree. If I lived nearer London I would put it up for RHS Judging.
Regards

> Well done Dennis, on all counts ! Good growing , great orchid,
> super pic... but why so modest , why not Anguloaste Dennis Read ?
> And why urg why not send a form off to The Registrar , and make
> it official ?

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Light shade.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:05

I am sure you are well chuffed with those wonderful plants.....and the terrific shape of the flowers.

As to light shade. One what do they mean by light shade.....them that lives out there???

I took one look at the type of leaves and said to myself, 'them aint no shade lovers boyoh'!

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Brassavola perrinii
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:10

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] For a change
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:15

Yes ; you would have to register the Capicom x Paul Gripp cross first, lets assume you did , and called it Angi Cappapaul...and then the. Angi Cappapaul x Geyser Gold cross.

But if you put it up for an award, and it got one, it would be conditional on you registering it ; no award for an un-named cross that s the rule .

> The label with the plant says "Lyc.Geyser Gold x Lyc.((Capicom
> Vulcan) x Angcst. Paul Gripp) .

> I doubt that the registrar would accept it. Also the Taiwan
> Company, KENDOLIE Agri Tech, that did the mericloning would agree.
> If I lived nearer London I would put it up for RHS Judging.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] A COUPLE OF MINIS
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:20

These are very pretty things, and quite unknown to me. What is their
affinity -are they Laeliniae ?

I will put this genus on my mental "wish list" − look out for them on the S.
American dealers web-sites etc. In this connection I am so looking forward
to going to Dresden − it will be interesting to see the German ( etc. ? )
dealers on their home ground − the ones who don't cross a border ; what will
they have to offer ?

I have also been thinking about the next WOC, and trying to persuade my wife
that we should go ; it will be our last long-haul to the Far East journey I
think − I can celebrate my 80th whilst I am there − Joyce is a little older
; but just what could I bring back ? nothing I imagine, unless someone like
Janet Plested is also there and arranging a shipment, which I can tack on
to. Of course I am very early here − but I like to plan ahead − have
already booked our Christmas 2010 cruise, and Singapore later in the year
(2011) will ( Deo gracia ) be the next big holiday after that.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Andy's plants.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:45

Can you please tell me where I might be able to buy one of those charming plants.....the Macroclinium [Notylia in Hawkes Bible] as it sure is a stunner.

You mention the perfume/fragrance and state: I though maybe because of differential volatility of component oils? Hell Andy, what do that mean in New Forest language? To be honest, I have often noticed the difference in perfumes from similar plants.....guess Mother Nature will keep that secret to herself.

As to my Schoenorchis, well, to be left gobsmacked, as I was, just punch in the name on the Internet but hit the 'Images' tab, hell man there are some crackers to look at.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Dennis's plant.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:50

Well now matey, that sure is one hell of an Angulocaste. Well done mate, I know that you are highly chuffed.

You mentioned Kendolie........I bought a couple of hybrid Cattleyas from them and I am very pleased.

If I go to the London Show next year and they are there.......that will be my first port of call.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Schoenorchis fragrans.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:55

As you say Peter it is a mystery. I have stuck the flower spike almost up my nose.......................no laughing you lot.....................but can not detect even the slightest fragrance.

If I hold several Autumn Ladies Tresses in my hand then I can detect a perfume, so I say that the Schoenorchis fragrans does not have any perfume.

> As far as I know nobody has detected any fragrance on this orchid.
> The name is a mystery.

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] A COUPLE OF MINIS
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:50

They are in the same subfamily − the Epidendroideae − but differ at the tribe level from the Laeliniae. Macrocliniums are closely allied to the Oncidiums.

As to where to get them Roger − I guess now that they are on your radar ......... That is how I stumbled on these. If you don't know the genus that tiny fan of leaves on some stall at a show would not grab you!

> These are very pretty things, and quite unknown to me. What is
> their affinity -are they Laeliniae ?

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Andy's plants.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:05

Things that smell evaporate − that's how they get up our noses! Complex perfumes such as plant scents are made of lots of different oil-like chemicals that evaporate at different temperatures so at low temperature there may be a different mix of chemicals in the vapour than at high temperatures. This is also partly why a perfume smells different from the bottle than on the skin.....

> You mention the perfume/fragrance and state: I though maybe
> because of differential volatility of component oils? Hell
> Andy, what do that mean in New Forest language? To be honest, I
> have often noticed the difference in perfumes from similar
> plants.....guess Mother Nature will keep that secret to herself.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: RHS judging
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:00

Geoff, I have been advised that although the Orchid committee will judge and award an un-registered grex you must register it within 6 months. There is no way the complex hybrid could be registered by me at all.
Regards

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RHS judging
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:35

Having just had a look at your superb orchid that you have shared with many of us, a thought came to mind.

Would it not be a good idea if the so called 'R.H.S. Orchid Committee' had designated representatives around the Country so that in your case you could pay a visit to such a person and let them see it first hand, fresh and not 'Journey fatigued.

Of course it is all just an idea of mine, but if someone at Burnham's was the person, that would suit you down to the ground, and all other people in the South West of England.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RHS judging
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:45

Roger, Sara Rittershausen had already offered to carry my plant to the judging.
We have our orchid society meetings at Burnham Orchids and they do a lot of unsung activities to promote amateur growers.
I think they are the only orchid nursery in the UK to do their own pollination, flasking and growing.
If we are to maintain a viable orchid presence we must support yhis family owned company.
Regards and end of 'high horse rant'. Dennis
ps Iwish I knew how to change this weather for the better

> Hello Dennis, Having just had a look at your superb orchid that
> you have shared with many of us, a thought came to mind. Would it
> not be a good idea if the so called 'R.H.S. Orchid Committee' had
> designated representatives around the Country so that in your case
> you could pay a visit to such a person and let them see it first
> hand, fresh and not 'Journey fatigued. Of course it is all just
> an idea of mine, but if someone at Burnham's was the person, that
> would suit you down to the ground, and all other people in the
> South West of England.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: 2 questions and an answer,
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:50

The answer first ; I showed a pic of a pretty Oncid (type) asking for a
name... I have now flowered two more, one of which has a label in ; so the
answer is Colmanara Wildcatt 'Kerry'

Question 1. Is there any orchid which likes to be ( or can be) plaque
mounted which actually likes a pad of sphagnum moss ? I ask because I am
fairly new to plaque mounts on a large scale − I have been killing orchids
on plaque mounts most of my life ; they just don't go with a life where the
grower is away one week in four... but now , as an old man, I have reduced
my travelling for several reasons, and some things on plaques prosper
mightily. But I have just come to move them all to a different site, and the
rotten moss I am finding ( now that I have brought them down from the roof,
where they were reached by a lance sprayer, but not quite near enough to see
properly ) is quite offensive . The actual root growth on tree-fern or bark
is nice, though. Should I throw all the moss away , or keep it on some, and
if so which ? Comments/advice/suggestions, please.....

Question 2. I "know" that the night temperature "needs" to be below the day
temperature. I really do know that this is important for flower bud
initiation in cymbidiums , phalaenopsis and vandas − to name but three. But
I also thought it was part of the Krebs cycle, or Calvin cycle etc. i.e.
part of photosynthesis . I have been trying to track this down ; can't find
a single reference. Important for spiking yes ; effects of diurnal shift in
CAM as compared to C3 photosynthesis yes, increased malic acid
concentration ( suggesting carboxyl storage ) yes ; remarkable changes in pH
during night temperature drop (pH6.5 down to pH 4.5 in the same cell !!! )
yes , ATP formation − v- glucose formation yes... but as to the necessity of
the temperature drop for good vegetative growth- not a word....am I
dreaming, or what ?

My breath is bated- I am not the only grower here (?) who thinks science is
better than old wives tales- what can you tell me − where can you point me
for info ?

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RHS judging
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:05

Well, actually there is. I am not suggesting that you should do it, just pointing out that you could do it. You have to register all of the unregistered crosses, one-by-one , then when you have two registered crosses as parents, you register the final cross. You have to do this to get an award ( RHS award of Merit, for example) confirmed ; ( technically , the RHS Orchid Committee make a recommendation for an Award to the RHS Council , and Council confirm once the register is straight).

But as to putting an orchid up for an award , its a fools game for anyone not in the Home Counties with the exception of orchids being shown at a major show where the Committee go for a day s jolly... You are supposed to be at Vincent Square at 8.30 ( involves most of us travelling the day before or at the least asking permission to be late which makes me feel like a five year old please teacher , and then travelling on the milk train no cheap day returns, at that hour) and carrying a nice plant on a train is not a good thing anyway; it is surprising how heavy/bulky and vulnerable they are when you try to do that . By the time you get home at the end of the day you kick yourself for being stupid and rue the damage done to your plant I ve been there....

Seriously the RHS should change it s name to the Londoner s Horticultural Society , as far as we are concerned !

> Geoff, I have been advised that although the Orchid committee will
> judge and award an un-registered grex you must register it within 6
> months. There is no way the complex hybrid could be registered by
> me at all.

From: Lynda Coles
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 questions and an answer,
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:20

re:- the importance of temperature drop in relation to vegetive growth in plants.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RHS judging
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:45

Dennis said...they [Burnham] are the only orchid nursery in the UK to do their own pollination, flasking and growing....

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 questions and an answer, plaques or simulated branches.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:20

You answerd lots of your question in your question. we call the plaques: trunks. I walk around my green house and say is there anything I can grow in a pot and not on a trunk, life is sure funny. I think of pots as a way to simulate trunks, my thinking goes like this how can I provide medium that drains like the rain on a tree in a forrest for me it is hard to grow plants in pots, all my large ( bigger than flowering size ) Cats grow on trunks. beating around the bush to the moss part of your question. What type of forrest does it come from? the "wet" forrests all have moss on the trees, if it is from a "cloud forrest" if has lots of moss on it. now hear the caution: the moss on the cloud forrest is all over everything ( except the leaves , and flowers) , and thick 1-4 inches, BUT is s light and fluffy and I mean really light and fluffy when it is soaking wet in the rain, it is kind of hard to imagine soaking wet moss and light and fluffy
but yes it is. Now light and fluffy really translates to airy. The majority of the orchids do not grow in stagnant air. I have seen many a pot STUFFED with moss, and the plant lives anyway. To get an Idea of what I mean by light and fluffy lift you soaking wet moss up and dangle it freely.... Ok so I know we all adapt or containers to our growing conditions, to help controll water delivery, water availability, always remeber the rootts like air equally as well.

So I would recomend a miniture to start with, or an oncidium, tricopilia, lycaste, maxilaria, masildavia, dracula, pescatoria, cochliantes, Oncidium ornithorhynchum is a good example.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 questions and an answer,
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:00

Answer to Question 1. As far as I am concerned, I would never put any sphagnum moss on a mount and then fasten the orchid to the mount. Never, never, save yourself time and money. The orchids grow much better with their roots getting to grips with the mount straight away.

> Question 1. Is there any orchid which likes to be ( or can be)
> plaque mounted which actually likes a pad of sphagnum moss ?

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RHS judging
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:05

> But as to putting an orchid up for an award , its a fools game
> for anyone not in the Home Counties with the exception of
> orchids being shown at a major show where the Committee go for a
> day s jolly... You are supposed to be at Vincent Square at 8.30 (
> involves most of us travelling the day before or at the least
> asking permission to be late which makes me feel like a five
> year old please teacher , and then travelling on the milk
> train no cheap day returns, at that hour) and carrying a nice
> plant on a train is not a good thing anyway; it is surprising how
> heavy/bulky and vulnerable they are when you try to do that . By
> the time you get home at the end of the day you kick yourself for
> being stupid and rue the damage done to your plant I ve been
> there....

> Seriously the RHS should change it s name to the Londoner s
> Horticultural Society , as far as we are concerned !

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RHS judging
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:15

I read your first sentence and had a good laugh...............not at Sarah, oh no, I have a special regard for her, but to the fact that your plant would have to go to London.

Yes we all must support such outfits, from whatever part of the U.K. we live in.

'High horse rant' not on your Nellie Dennis, it's quite normal as far as I am concerned.

I well remember a T.V. programme showing some 'Orchid Judges' wandering around an Orchid Show.......looking like a bunch of toffs. Sarah, who was the youngest and most recent addition to the 'Mob' was treated like s..t. Kept well back and not allowed to mix with the upper crust. That's why they will always be out on a limb, unless they change the way things are done.

From: Kenneth Bruyninckx
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 questions and an answer,
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:20

> Question 1. Is there any orchid which likes to be ( or can be) plaque
> mounted which actually likes a pad of sphagnum moss ?

I'm going to give you the most obvious answer ever... it all depends on
your growing conditions :-)

In the past we used to grow more orchids mounted on cork oak, at the time
without moss. Back then we did not have a misting system so this meant
daily watering in summer and sometimes even twice a day depending on the
species.

Nowadays being much less disciplined we do add a bit of sphagnum moss for
the (more) tender/moisture loving plants as they are no longer hosed down
everyday. Some however still do not get see any moss around their base...
Of course, having added a misting system in the greenhouse does help as
well to keep humidity up and watering frequency down.

It is difficult to set a rule but in the event of species without "big"
(in comparison to the size of the plant) chunky swollen pseudobulbs I
would add a bit of sphagnum moss, the others can easily do without.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RHS judging
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:55

Great, All the more reason we should support british nurseries. They are our only hope to combat the CITES over complicated, due to lack of orchid knowledga, stranglehold over orchid growers in the UK. Regards

> Dennis said...they are the only orchid nursery in the UK to do
> their own pollination, flasking and growing.... Plesteds too , to
> my knowledge ; and Peter White also, I think...

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Autumn Ladies Tresses
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:45

Went out for a nice four mile walk this afternoon in one area of the New Forest.

I guess that 'Books' don't tell all that is available to the eye of the observer, so how about this. The Botanical name for this orchid is, 'Spiranthes spiralis', meaning of course that the flowers twist round the stem. Ah yes says I, but in which direction?

First photo, the damned flowers all wanted to point the same way. Second photo they went clockwise. Third photo they went tother way. Last photo shows where they grow.........on what is called a 'Forest Lawn'. The 'Lawnmowers' being forest cattle and 'orses.

From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] gale force winds and mould
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:40

Well Roger, you think you've got problems.......
Dennis's gales are reaching Lincolnshire and I'm waiting for them to subside in order to put a shed roof on!

Just off to get a pacemaker fitted so will look out for replies on my return home! (this evening or tomorrow!)

From: Andy
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] 2 questions and an answer, plaques or simulated branches.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:15

I think it also depends on the type of moss. When I buy orchids on mounts they often have a wad of sphagnum. In addition to holding water I think it has some antiseptic properties. However sphagnum mosses would not normally be found as an epiphytes and although they rot very slowly I wouldn't expect them to grow. In general if the plant is well established I tease out what bits of moss I can.

I may add a bit of moss to assist the transition onto a mount especially if there is a very limited root area. but I tend to attach the plant roots between the bark and the moss so that it can be easily removed. I will add a picture later if I have time.

Sometimes other moss species begin growing naturally on the mount and I tend to leave them as long as the orchid is thriving, doing a bit of weeding as necessary but that looks pleasing and as Jim says it is not at all like a dense airless soggy pad.

As to which types of orchids like moss around the roots. I would say bulbos/cirrhos like moss growing round them. Also I wrote sometime ago about mounting lycastes − I have a couple groing very happily so far on mossy mounts ie live growing moss.

From: Dennis Read
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] gale force winds and mould
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:50

The only time my orchids were affected by sooty mould a wash of physan cleared it.
Regards
Watch for the gales coming from the west, all the best for the op.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] gale force winds and mould
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:40

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Trunks/plaques
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:45

I like Jim's word ; but of course branches are more common than trunks in
the wild ?

Thanks to all who contributed ; the most illuminating comment I think is
that moss in the rain forest is not the same thing as a pad of sopping wet
sphagnum moss.

And putting the moss on top of the roots , not between the roots and the
bark (etc) where it is used . also seems good sense.

I have about 75 plants on mounts of one kind or another − cork-oak bark,
tree-fern, "moss-poles" ,thick twigs, etc − a few on the new synthetic
tree-fern substitute ( Epiweb , I think its called)- the best certainly seem
to be on cork-oak with nothing added, but maybe they are just the ones that
like that treatment. But since my plants are now getting sprayed virtually
every day , and I have a good humidification system, that looks to be the
one to pursue.

From: tony garthwaite
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] gale force winds and mould
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 10:25

From: JIM MATEOSKY
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] Trunks/plaques − a little CITES info for Rodge
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:25

Yes the commercially available sphagnum moss and the moss that grows in my trees is not the same , but is has the similar properties. the difference is the forrest moss is lighter and airer, but remember these cloud forrets are wet wet humid and very well ventialed. My recomendation for a trunk is find a piece of firewood that the bark sticks to, nail a thick wire to it and attach the orchid. This is what all the old timers here do with great success ( and it is cheap ). I see you have a good humidifier (system) How about fans − ventalation? this is an equal part of the equation.

By the way my neighbor has a field of wild sphagnum moss growing on the ground, he burns it off regurally, it is illeagle to harvest and sell it. In other words it is a pain in his ass he'd rather have grass for his cows or plant samething there. BTW no it is not ok to brurn it either, just another point along the CITES line, remember "the governments are here to help", unfortuantly there heads are burried deep in a real smelly place.

From: Roger Grier
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] RHS judging
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:45

An Orchid Nursery here in the U.K. has cross pollinated a couple of hybrid Cattleyas, produced seed pods, sown them in their laboratory and then a few years later have flowered some of them. Most of them are quite similar and are very nice.

A person on holiday from the Channel Islands and who is a keen Amateur Orchid buff buys a couple of the plants.

Will he be allowed back to his home in the Channel Islands without as we would assume, the necessary CITES/Import permits/paperwork?????

This is just the start of my 'Long Journey' to get non endangered orchids and CITES well and truly on the open table and sorted out for once and for all.

Because to quite honest, if I was buying orchids that were in no way ENDANGERED SPECIES, and that this could be proven, then CITES could be shown to be trying to get money from me when there's no need for me to pay such monies.

> Great, All the more reason we should support british
> nurseries. They are our only hope to combat the CITES over
> complicated, due to lack of orchid knowledga, stranglehold
> over orchid growers in the UK. Regards

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: UK orchid trade... news..
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:35

I went to Dinton Pastures . Nice little event . Seemed a bit quiet, but then
the whole world was on the M3 ( or so it seemed) so there couldn't have been
many people to be at an orchid trade fair...

I didn't get time to talk to some I'd have liked to ( owing to a rash
promise to take my wife to a new gastropub near home) for lunch... we should
have got back by 1pm for that, but eventually turned off the motorway ( at
2pm , still 40 miles from home) and went to the first pub we found.

But I did chat to a few ; David Stead told me it would be his last show,
except for possibly one or two more later this year nearer his home in
Yorkshire , as he is retiring at the end of the year ; going to Australia (
permanently)... I am told that I shouldn't reminisce along the lines of I
remember him when he was newly in the orchid trade , makes me sound like a
rambling old man- which of course I am... Ah well.

A new entrant to the trade, however , on a small scale , Orchid Alchemy.
Have a list of about 30 species, offered as good sized seedlings, selfed (
or sibbed) flasked and raised themselves. Good plants ; I have had one of
each of 10 different ones, they came in 7cm sq pots, clean, strong, full of
roots ; mostly £5 each. I recommend them. www.orchidalchemy.com

Back at Dinton, Akerne were selling ( apart from their plants) a new orchid
fertiliser under the name Akerne's... (they do a rain water version and a
tap water version ). I think they said it was originated by , or maybe even
made up for and sold by MSU , which I think is Massachusetts State Uni'. I
have a lot of faith in Akerne , a good solid reliable firm , so bought a pot
to try out.

From: David Martin
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] UK orchid trade... news..
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:35

I originally read about these fertilisers in the American Orchid Society Magazine June 2003. It was developed by Michigan State University originally for Easter Lilies, Poinsettias and annual bedding plants. It was then tried on orchids and the results were "unbelievable" to quote the author. There were two fertilisers, one was Well Water Special, 19-4-23 and the other was called RO Water Special 13-3-15.
I thought about buying some but still have a large bag of Peters and really didn't need any more.
Peter White confirmed that Physan is now withdrawn and it cost him a small fortune to have his stock destroyed. Hopefully there will be a replacement sometime next year.
David

> ...Akerne were selling ( apart from their plants) a new orchid
> fertiliser under the name Akerne's... (they do a rain water version
> and a tap water version ). I think they said it was originated by ,
> or maybe even made up for and sold by MSU − which I think is
> Massachusetts State Uni'. I have a lot of faith in Akerne − a good
> solid reliable firm − so bought a pot to try out.

From: geoff hands
To: Orchid Talk List
Subject: Re: [OrchidTalk] UK orchid trade... news..
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:20

I have now found the leaflet which Kenneth ( of Akerne) gave me , and done a
little work. Using it at the recommended strength ( ½ gm per 1 litre of rain
water) with rather poor rain-water ,EC 140 uS, pH 6.6 , it gave a solution
of 490 uS ( comfortably near the zone I want to feed at , 500-600 uS) and
6.35 pH − again very suitable. I have used it for my cattleya collection
today, and intend to carry on with it.

I too have a large stock , almost 20 litres each of the A and B ’Grow' and
the same of ’Bloom' of the GrowthTechnology 'Optimum' fertiliser, but I mix
that with both Calcium Nitrate and anything which says 'rich in trace
elements' , or with Mag sulphate and say Tomorite, and I feel its a bit hit
and miss. But I will use it up on the rest of my collection.

Someone will surely say, have I done proper experiments before jumping in at
the deep end with a new fertiliser, , but it is not possible ( for me). I
don't have enough identical plants to be statistically significant and
provide comparisons, and I don't have enough time to spare . Any experiments
with growing things have to be done over a longish period of time or they
are meaningless , and at my age, I can't wait for x years....So the
alternative is take advice from someone you trust. Which is what I have
done; but trying not to boast, my cattleyas are doing so well at the moment
( it's wonderful what 13 hours guaranteed sunlight every day will do ! )
that if this magic fertiliser can do any better, my mind boggles....

Physan ; I heard from MAM that they can't do it anymore; I intend to follow
the line of looking for swimming pool cleaners and read labels until one
rings bells. Then try it out gingerly on a few things which can be
spared....

> I originally read about these fertilisers in the American Orchid Society
> Magazine June 2003. It was developed by Michigan State University originally
> for Easter Lilies, Poinsettias and annual bedding plants. It was then tried
> on orchids and the results were "unbelievable" to quote the author. There
> were two fertilisers, one was Well Water Special, 19-4-23 and the other was
> called RO Water Special 13-3-15.

> I thought about buying some but still have a large bag of Peters and really
> didn't need any more.

MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE	MONTH	DATE	DATE	DATE	DATE
January	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	February	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-28
March	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	April	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
May	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	June	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30
July	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31	August	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
September	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	October	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31
November	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-30	December	1-7	8-14	15-21	22-31

2009 Archived Messages

22—31 August